Dubbed "Indie Queen," Parker Posey embraces her position as outsider and her “undefinable” reputation. The themes of Posey’s recent projects underscore this outlier quality—as a cast member of the sci-fi series Lost in Space, and author of a memoir imagined as a conversation between the actress, and a stranger on an airplane,You're on an Airplane: A Self Mythologizing Memoir. In this episode, Parker shares with Susan and Todd how hardship sharpens resilience, compassion as courage, and losing oneself in the discovery of what you didn’t know you were looking for.
Show Notes
You're on an Airplane: A Self-Mythologizing Memoir
I'm Susan Barrett, and I'm Todd Thomas. At Barrett Barrera Projects, we believe that ART IS A VERB — it’s the ongoing process of de-constructing and re-constructing our world.
This season, we'll delve deep into the creative processes of some of our most inspiring friends and collaborators, to understand how they are navigating this pivotal moment and working to transform our existing systems, reimagine the status quo, and support each other across disciplines, in order to create a more sustainable, and equitable future for us all.
Welcome to ART IS A VERB, a Barrett Barrera Project. In this episode, we are venturing into the spirit of the depths with our friend: actor, writer, and potter, Parker Posey, indie and arthouse darling from films like Party Girl, Dazed and Confused, and most recently, the Netflix series she stars in, Lost in Space.
Parker is also the author of her New York Times best-selling book, “You’re on an Airplane, A Self-Mythologized Autobiography.”
We caught up with Parker while she was holed up in Austin, Texas--to discuss courage, survival, and the true resonance of art.
Parker, welcome to Art is a Verb. Thank you for being here.
Parker: [00:00:13] Thanks for having me.
Todd: [00:00:14] It's really funny to be participating in this podcast because I've just really bemoaned my inaudible life for the past few years.
The way that things have just become, you know, we're communicating with the barest, minimum of words, texted and no punctuation. So it's good to be actually speaking to you.
Parker: [00:00:40] Do you remember that time we went to Peacefood--which is this vegetarian restaurant in New York--and there was this waitress, of a plate of cauliflower went by us--and I was like, “oh, that looks kind of good. I'm going to ask her about the cauliflower.” And I said, “can you tell me about the cauliflower?” And she said, “well, it's like broccoli, but it's a white vegetable.” And we were like “wow! We are in trouble!”
So, I mean, you know, all of this, we're in the beginning of the quarantine when they were calling it--or at least my friends were saying--this is an awakening.
I continue to walk around believing that, and knowing that on a deep level, we're all here to evolve collectively together. Not everyone is equal, but we have equal rights. So this pause has been a lot of grief, right? So I can't be in New York City right now, a city that I love.
So, I'm here in Austin. Rick Linklater asked me to host the Texas Film Awards and Austin Film Society, was like an anniversary, like the 30th for the Film Society and the 25th for The Texas Film Awards, and I've been telling him no, for like 20 years. You know, he directed Dazed and Confused.
I'm like, no, I can't do it. But finally I was like, you know, this is a good time. I'd love to come down here and help my family, my favorite Aunt Skippy. My hippie Aunt Skippy lives over on Keasbey Street and she has dementia, but she's doing great. And the house that I'm staying in now, we call 305.
So I've been helping them organize, and landscape, and move the work shed, tools, all of this stuff over there. I've been in production. I've been in this kind of space of helping and just feeling like I have a really deep purpose here.
You know, this is like time travel. I got the time wrong on this. Like, I'm sure I read the email, you know? And saw that it was 12 o'clock your time, and 11 o'clock mine, but... I have no sense of time right now.
Todd: [00:03:03] Same here. Yeah.
Parker: [00:03:03] Like, how many times [can I think] today is Tuesday on Monday? There was a week, like a month or so ago, that everyone thought it was Thursday for... until Thursday finally came. [Laughter]
And I feel like, when we have to make sense of times that are hard, we have to see what brought us here, and we see our resilience...
Susan [00:03:35]: I agree.
Parker: [00:037] And I feel like, yeah, ever since writing the book... or having to sell my apartment, you know, I, I ran out of money, I wanted to keep the house... and I had to reinvent.
I borrowed from my dad and I never wanted to borrow money from him... I'm like, I can do this by myself...and I knew he was really proud of me for being able to make it happen on my own.
And, so I hunkered down, I was in a creative exile for a while... and wrote a book, or book proposal, and then got lost in space and was gone for six months, twice. We just, we shot the last season like a year ago, last November, um...and my father passed away during that time. So I have a grief, beautiful grief story of that...of getting to see him and…[choking up]
And, you know, my dog Gracie passed like seven months ago... And so it's, you know, like my heart just keeps opening, you know, when I think of New York City right now, I'm just like.... a part of me is praying all the time, and, and magical thinking things... and, reading, you know, seeing an article and making up... you know, “did that say we're struggling alone, together?” or... yeah, I was just making stuff up.
I know that grief is kind of like a dementia, which is really interesting, and it's very surreal, they've had some really surreal moments. Anyway, I'm rambling because I haven't wanted to really talk, in this way, as like, a public person.
Cause [I’ve had to] honor this time. Part of being over on Keasbey, and just going back, I think, to my American Indian roots, and what made the country house so important for me to keep, is just, being in the dirt, being able to have a dialogue inside myself, you know, with the birds that are flying around. With the hard work of, finding things, with digging...with just being in nature.
Because there's a lot of suffering on the path of being an artist and living authentically… I think, you know, that's hard. That has its own challenges, I should say, but I feel like I'm, you know, eight years old, and sometimes I feel like a really old lady rocking on the porch in a rocking chair and waving to the neighbors who pass by.
People are walking outside their homes, they're talking to each other, they're waving to each other and that's been really lovely to see. And I'm excited, you know, I wasn't like one of the ones like, Oh my God, I'm not going to be able to get my hair done. What am I going to do? I was like, Oh, let's grow the hair out. Let's play in the yard.
I've found a lot of, different totems around, different sticks shaped like snakes, and giving gifts that are made. And I climbed a ladder and cleaned a gutter. I listened to Bob Dylan and his album, his latest album a few days ago. And... Just to see...to honor what this time is right now, which I think has to do with your heart courage.
Todd: [00:07:07] Yeah. It's pretty powerful. I mean, it's powerful to have sat in your home or your location or wherever you are holed up for three months and witness these groundbreaking experiences happening in front of us and... it's un-comprehendable to the full level.
Parker: [00:07:29] Don’t you feel like it's happy tears?
Todd: [00:07:33] Totally.
Parker: [00:07:36] So [heartbreaking? unintelligible] but, but also so brilliant at the same time.
Todd: [00:07:40] Right. I mean, I think that, when the protests started happening, that was a moment where... that was a relief, in some really happy way... even though it's from a place of really immense pain...to witness that, I was sitting on my bed, watching television, watching the news, like the New York 1 Live...there’s a protest going on... I'm like, wait a minute, it’s right outside my door. Why am I sitting on my fucking couch. [Laughter]
I’m like, go outside to witness this! And I did, and it was just a wave of emotion to see this collective response, it was a collective relief, it was bigger picture, and it was feeling like, there was definitely a connection after being so isolated for so long.
Parker: [00:08:35] Yeah. I was talking to my friend, Tanya, one of my Tanya friends and she's been in Europe this whole time.
Todd: [00:08:41] Who was it you were talking to, Parker?
Parker: [00:08:43] Tanya Gallo, my friend Tanya Gallo, who grew up in Manhattan and does urban planning for cities, and she's been a friend since I was like 15. I met her at North Carolina School of the Arts when I was 15 years old, and we've been close ever since. Anyway, she and her husband, Andy were planning their wedding, but they were stuck... outside of Nice.
I was talking to her on the phone, and I was like, you know, there's such shame before the protests were starting, with what was going on... realizing that nothing had changed, you know since the LA riots. And just this sense of shame and disappointment.
And at the same time, you know, this can't be this country, you know, I'm from the South. I’m from the deep South and...I had to move to New York. I, I...This isn't right to judge people in this way. And so it was very liberating for New Yorkers and all of us who escape... to live in the story of, you know, this incredible... New York City is a miracle. I can't believe it can even exist. I love it so much.
I've had erotic dreams about Cuomo. Um, I'm sure everybody has... And [Laughter] it's just giving me this, like, I just feel like I'm hugging it all the time.
Todd: [00:10:14] Yeah. It's a pretty amazing place to be right now, for sure. You know, I feel it's certainly a re-connection to why I came here, which is, to see things like what is happening and to pursue a path in work and realizing a fuller vision of my life, and connect with all of the people that seem to be inspiring and important for me to connect with to do that. And that's one thing that we're trying to understand in this series, is who our intersectors and our supporters are, and the way that we make our work and our creative lives... and live our lives more fully.
Parker: [00:11:02] It's happening now. [Yeah] This is a little baby step. The thoughtful Hollywood squares of Zoom. [Todd: Exactly] [Laughter]
Susan: [00:11:16] I wanted to ask you, Parker, you said that “art is the medicine the monster produces while trying to survive the labyrinth.” What are those medicines that you are taking now, and have taken in the past? I love that metaphor.
Parker: [00:11:29] I think, as actors and storytellers and certainly New Yorkers, you walk out the door and you don't know where you're going... when you go for a walk. And it's a big reason why I live in the city...there's something about finding the thing that you didn't know you were looking for until you see it.
And there's something, the dialogue from the inside of your own psyche to the outside of, you know, the New Yorkers who are everywhere around you...
I think that medicine will always be joy and love. It'll always be getting lost, in order to be found, being thrown... to be caught. And you know, I think acting is, is... can be so scary, ‘cause you're just giving yourself to the moment..especially the Christopher Guest movies, you know where they're all improvised...
Like sometimes it's so...you know, where's all this going to come from? I could run to the top of the house and I can jump and, be caught in the fabric of the story of a film... and that the other actors are there, and the director’s there, and I think it's a really good metaphor for Now...
When you had [talked about] about, earlier of like, bemoaning, the, you know, the loss of words of like, It takes a lot of courage to be, you know, it's not so much a courageous thing, I think, to be like so powerful. And so, you know, like beating up each other is not courageous. Calling each other names is not courageous. It's the understanding of... and the compassion of, you know, where people come from... in order to forgive.
Todd: [00:13:21] I think for your work too, has also been a medicine for many people. I mean, I know that people really love you, and I've seen that as your friend, walking around, people just express this gratitude towards you, and the work that you've done, which added to the experience of people's lives, and I'm just wondering how that is with like the people that you work with, that you encounter, like how your kind of like tribes of people that you make your work with, or the directors that you've worked with, how they've influenced or coaxed you are caught you...
Parker: [00:14:03] Louis CK is a perfect example of like, living my life, going to a reading of Beyond Therapy with this all-star cast that was incredible, for the Cherry Lane Theater and you know, Marisa Tomei and Mario Cantone. And, anyway, it was just this great reading and that's how I met Louie.
And then, he's like, you're great, let's talk, tell me about yourself. And just by, you know, an hour or two, you know, his wheels are turning, and he knew how he was going to place me and the amalgamation of these different people that he met over the years and something that he wanted to do for a long, long time.
My path has been very much about instinct. So when going back to the labyrinth over there, it's to follow your instincts. And I'm a big Joseph Campbell fan, and Emerson, to be true to yourself can be like a scary thing because it's alone, you're alone.
Todd: [00:15:12] Well it kind of seems like, in what you do, people are really confused by being yourself. I mean, I think that Hollywood doesn't really want you to be yourself or one's self...Truly. And I think you're a great example of self-realization, and the reliance on building your own community.
Parker: [00:15:40] Oh, but Todd, I mean, you have felt like that too. I mean, I felt like an outsider since I was five years old. I’ve felt, whether it was the abandonment of my dad going to Vietnam ‘till the age of three, and my mother being a young mother and having to walk alone in the neighborhood, you know, I knocked on a neighbor's door when I was four years old, naked having just gotten out of the bathtub.
[Laughter] I still think I'm doing that.
Todd: [00:16:13] To a certain degree, maybe you are, you know? I think that too, your life is action. I think like you are about action and I think that Susie, you can talk about your concept of action with art, ‘Art is a Verb’ is something that we use in our connection and in our intersections with others too.
Susan: [00:16:41] So basically we think that Art is a Verb because it's not the end product. But it's that process and it's that sort of battle--that individual battle that we all go through, and we have to go through it alone, but yet it's so collective and it's such a shared experience that there's even words for it.
You know, Malcolm Gladwell calls it “flow,” the flow of the work. And it's something that you can only do by yourself. You have to go through that darkness and you have to, have those hard questions, which then has the results, but the results is nothing compared to that richness. We've all been talking about this quarantine and how maybe that is that individual battle collectively that we're asked to go through.
Parker: [00:17:32] The dark night of the soul, the dark night of the soul. And, you know, there's this show that I've been watching called “Alone” on Hulu, it’s on the History Channel... and they’re survivalists that are trapped in Antarctica and Patagonia by themselves with cameras, and they film themselves. I just love it. I've never seen people like this. I would never do something like that!
Of course I love camping. I say I love camping. I haven't done it, you know, in like 25 years... but these people, the way that they can survive, I think it's also a community that's amazing, like the naturalists.
Like, we want to discover new territory. And so the show anyway, like they eat mice, they survive on these twigs, some of them are botanists... and some of them are just there to have this experience to push themselves and to get to know themselves and to give to their families, they win like $500,000.
And they're in the dark night of the soul, too. So over on Keasbey, you know, I'm always looking for these narratives to bring into my life, to make my life Active, like you're saying, yeah, Art is a Verb. It is about your lifestyle, and how you approach everybody around. And I've been so touched by like, over at Aunt Skippey's, our neighbors, Rachel and Melissa, they had a baby girl, they named Moxie.
I put a hammock on their yard and it's just like, I got the best root canal I've ever had in my life. There are miracles everywhere. I can't wait to go to the dentist again. They are changing now.
Susan: [00:19:31] Isn't it interesting that you're talking about like naturalists and we're talking about the external experiences, which is where we've been stuck before this. And now we're going into internal landscapes and dreamscapes where time and space is sort of confusing. And this is a very difficult space for most of us. I mean, some of us like it, I enjoy it. [But that’s a different story.]
Parker: [00:19:58] You're used to it, right?
Susan: [00:20:00] Well, personally I am, but this is a time to sort of be the architect and the urban landscaper for these internal sort of non-dimensional spaces. So how does that resonate with you as an artist? How do you navigate those scapes?
Parker: [00:20:17] You know, it's inspiring to me. I haven't sat down to write. I feel like I'm very much, you know, in the labyrinth. I am in the Plutonian labyrinth, and I think a lot of artists are right now, being lost and just finding our way.
We were sitting out on the front porch, at night, there's a little fire pit and we're just doing lots of talking, in my family and some neighbors, and we have more space in the conversations to just kind of be... and Austin is a lot more laid back than New York. So anyway, my cousin's husband, John was going, like, look at that guy over there across the street and it's this house.
And when we looked at him, he looked like he was talking to himself in the window of the house. In his own reflection, it was the most surreal thing. And we all just stood up and we just watched him do this until we realized there was a woman hiding behind the column. But, we're like, is this what it’s come to? People are standing outside their homes, talking to themselves in their own reflections and windows... like, there's something so surreal and fantastic in this way and new... but that we all kind of thought that he was doing that, is insane. [Todd: perceptions.] Yeah, these perceptions.
So just kind of being aware of the opening of the depth of the individual and that they could be...well, I've done that. I have stared through a window of the house, just like kind of talking, I wouldn't do it outside of my front yard, but...
Todd: [00:22:03] Parker, your book “You're On An Airplane,” which is a National bestseller is full of all of these observations. Like what you speak about free-form, and what you have experienced deeply, what you've experienced observationally...Is there more of like your own writing and your own content that you're thinking about in your future work?
And also, there's this documentary The Bookseller. What's that about?
Parker: [00:22:31] The filmmakers got in touch with me like a year ago and I'm so happy to be attached to it.
There has to be new forms made with actors and playwrights and something like the Playhouse 90, what Playhouse 90 was in the fifties. I feel the soul of the playwright has... a lot of plays are written with the producers saying what it must be and what it's kind of a, it can be like a propaganda in a way.
I enjoy plays, but I miss a certain kind of writing that I would love to watch on a screen. There's this thing called Slow TV. That was, I had this idea for a Slow TV-type channel. Like. Seven or eight years ago, I’d do a lot of readings for selected shorts, and I think there's a way to bridge, literature and actors and acting into almost a VR type of slow TV, storytelling, reading.
I think there's an art to that, to this, you know, naturalism and I, I miss that. Like, I love that kind of acting and who doesn't like to be read too. Well, the healing arts creating something that you could do play in a hospital, you know, almost like a really long. You know, like the calm app where they have like, sounds of nature, things like that.
There's a preciousness that I feel has been lost, and an empathy that it can only be found with words and understanding them and, and putting emotion behind them. I'm excited people can see these heroes go out on a journey and find their way and beat the dragons.
Carl Jung said that we either live in the spirit of time or the spirit of the depths. And we're so much about time right now and I feel like a lot of material is spelling things out for us. Anyway, that's where I get inspired. I'm going to go back to those ideas again, because there was a Slow TV in Norway that came up with the same idea, so I know it's a good idea.
I think these kinds of actions help us open up the depths of our own. Cause I do believe that we lean towards lightness. [Todd: Yep.] I'd love to believe that, or you're just going to go insane. And New York City has been so hard these last 20 years. I'm so excited for it to recalibrate to being inclusive and not so much what money, you know, dying!
Todd: [00:26:15] You know about kind of showbiz and like that whole aspect of your work, you lend your name to things that you endorse, like The Bookseller project, but I've also witnessed you really take the piss out of your own fame and like, you really check that. And you defer everything to your life. I mean, I recall when you ask for a check, you'll be like, “is this my celebrity discount?” [Laughter] How is that, like defining yourself in an industry where that's not always possible. What about the industry now in light of like, Black Lives Matter and #MeToo...is there really going to be a change? You've experienced the difficulty being a woman and being kooky or, you know, undefinable. I mean, do you think that there will be change within your industry?
Parker: [00:27:11] I think there are things to be built and made, you know, why can't these big advertisers, right? I'm like, can I pitch to Nestlé Toll House Cookies for Slow TV? And we can eat a cookie and, sit by a fire and you can hear the fireplace? I'm really into reaching, like the child and the elderly, and just including everybody. I mean, don't audiences want to see their actors, these, you know, Val Kilmer, Nicholas Cage, I'm thinking of these creative actors that want to produce from a certain place outside the system. There has to be, I know it has to change.
Our material has to change. Our narrative is...is not going to be the same narrative after this. And I'm tired of the news narrative because now I've seen how it affects friendships, I've seen how it affects conversations and it's like enough, let's start over. [Todd: Yeah.]
I'll go back to what I said earlier. I've always felt like an outsider. I've always felt like there's a cosmic joke in this, you know? And that's my father, that's my dad. That's how my dad shaped me. That's how his father shaped him to a certain extent. So it's like, you get to a certain age and you go like, that's not me. It's not like an affront to anyone. It's just like, I'm independent, even from being an actress. You know, like, Oh, do I really want to work, and drown and get lost and have to reinvent myself again?
Todd: [00:29:01] I mean, honestly, as much as it's like a broken record and you hear it all the time... to me, truly Parker, “Indie Queen” really is your title because you're independent of definition, of your industry, of your fame. And that's something that I think is inspiring.
Susan: [00:29:24] There's a huge strength in that. I mean, there's a huge strength in watching you. And I will say: confession! This was the only podcast so far where I was intimidated to talk to you because of the strength of your characters, and the characters that resonate the most with me are those really strong bitchy girls, which I know so many of. [Laughter]
And it's like, does that sort of shape or protect some of the vulnerabilities, you know, inside? Like clearly you're so open and you're asked to sort of absorb so much, especially right now. So how does that hard character kind of, um...
Parker: [00:30:06] It's the shadow side of my Mother, the shadow side of my grandmother, both my dad's mom died of a broken heart. You know, she took everyone in to her suffering, she was a powerful storyteller. My mother's mother was a glamorous, like, queen and very inventive in her manipulations and her way to change herself all the time. I think in the South too, you know, there's a presentation of like, the Steel Magnolia, like someone that can have this veneer but underneath, there's this real strength.
I love playing powerful women it's about the heart, though. For me, it’s that, how is someone broken? Where is their wound? And then that is the gift. That's like the acorn, does this person have a heart? Ooh, can I play someone who doesn't know they have a heart? What does that look like? And I get really excited I remember I was working on this independent movie called The Price Check, and I went to this acting coach Harold Guskin, and I wanted him to read it to get his opinion. And I was like, I just want to know where's her heart. And he's like, there is none! So exciting. [Laughter] Just a real “See you next Tuesday.”
And we'll see these women and I'm fascinated by those women that are, like that patriarchal woman, because she's a woman doesn't mean she's like, a feminist and a great mother and all this stuff, the patriarchy and the so-called power of women can be very Patriarchal and not female. So I like playing those characters. And I have black hair and a widow's peak, you know? It works for me.
Todd: [00:32:16] Do you have thoughts about your work in the future. Like when you, you know, make your way back to New York or, what's next? Is it writing? Do you have Lost in Space completed and…?
Parker: [00:32:32] No, Season Three will be going in August or early September, and I can't wait to be lost in space again. How this sci-fi genre has fit into my life is something I'm very grateful for and excited about. I can't think of a better show to be on, than on another planet, playing a villain and talking to a robot. I love it. I love that it's family TV and, I can't write unless I'm at home. So my neighbor, my COVID neighbor over on Kingsley, Jerry, we've gotten to be really good friends and he's offered to drive me to New York.
So I'll be road tripping and landing back. and I can't wait.
Todd: [00:33:19] One thing I wanted your input on is, Faye Dunaway said one time, and you had mentioned her experience in your book. And I think we can wrap it up on this, but Faye Dunaway said, “hair acts too.” And I think that was in response to Roman Polanski, going over to her on mark and plucking a hair out of her scalp, which was like, you know, pulling too much focus of the backlight. And I thought it was funny, but then I, the more I thought about, I thought, wow, that's loaded.
It really speaks to like, you know, women in the business and...
Parker: [00:33:52] You know, her sensitivity. That's a weird thing for someone to pluck a hair out of your head. I've always said hair is 90% of acting, [laughter] and I think shoes kind of are 90% acting too...It’s like, hair and shoes, and the relationship to one’s hair is also another thing, ‘cause it's emotional. It can be.
Susan: [00:34:10] It’s the widow’s peak.
Parker: [00:34:15] I'm wearing a tight bun now though.
Todd: [00:34:25] Yup, you are.
Parker: [00:34:26] I’ve got a tight Genie bun on now. I've got my magic carpet and I'm going to keep all this sacred and be optimistic.
Todd: [00:34:38] Good. I hope we have the pleasure of sitting next to you on an airplane.
Parker: [00:34:46] This has been just so lovely to talk to you guys.
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