Zoe Robinson is a spirited risk taker with the tenacity to see her dreams to fruition. The founder of many beloved restaurants in St. Louis opened her first at age 23—a feat achieved through fulfilling her passion of making beautiful spaces for people to come together and enjoy delicious food. Although this attention to detail ranked her as a James Beard semifinalist she still indulges the humble joy of her waitressing roots by making heartfelt connections with clientele, even on each restaurant’s frequent at-capacity nights—a scene now paused due to COVID-19. Zoe shares with hosts Susan and Todd the trajectory and serendipity of her journey, and on staying nimble and innovative to continue her life’s work in the changed landscape of the restaurant industry.
Show Notes
I'm Susan Barrett, and I'm Todd Thomas. At Barrett Barrera Projects, we believe that ART IS A VERB — it’s the ongoing process of de-constructing and re-constructing our world.
This season, we'll delve deep into the creative processes of some of our most inspiring friends and collaborators, to understand how they are navigating this pivotal moment and working to transform our existing systems, reimagine the status quo, and support each other across disciplines, in order to create a more sustainable, and equitable future for us all.
Welcome to ART IS A VERB, a Barrett Barrera Project. In this episode, we're speaking with our dear friend, restaurateur Zoe Robinson: owner of 3 beloved restaurants in St. Louis: I Fratellini, Bar Les Freres, and Billie Jean.
In a previous life, both your hosts actually worked for Zoe at her first restaurant, Cafe Zoe... it’s a small wonder she’s stayed in business! Zoe is a long-time supporter and collaborator of Barrett Barrera Projects--she provided invaluable creative and strategic advice on the opening and operations of Barrett Barrera Guest House.
Named Restaurateur of the Year in 2017, and a James Beard semifinalist, Robinson has never been one to fear risk, and opened her first restaurant at just 23 years old.
We'll be discussing Zoe's process of making memorable experiences and what it's like to navigate the restaurant industry in the age of COVID.
Hi, Zoe! Welcome to Art is a Verb.
Zoe: [00:00:35] Hi, you two! I'm excited to be here.
Todd: [00:00:37] Zoe - we’ve known each other for a long time and began our careers together--me as a busboy, and you as a waitress. And Susan and you have quite a long history, too.
Susan: [00:00:47] Not as long, I'd like to point out.
Zoe: [00:00:50] Yes, we do. I hope I was very clear with that. Okay. She's younger.
Susan: [00:00:50] Um, no. And I worked at Cafe Zoe when I was in grad school. And Zoe, I don't know if I've ever told you this, I hope I have, but I think I learned how to talk to people and make people feel comfortable from watching you--because no one does that better. So you really create such a great experience.
Zoe: [00:01:20] Aww, Susan.
Susan: [00:01:23] Part of that leads into why we wanted to have you here in Art is a Verb, because for us, Art is a Verb means the act of creation. So it doesn't mean what your position is, or what your title is, or what your occupation is, but it means how you approach whatever it is that you're doing. And no one does that more than you do, Zoe, in terms of making sure that every person is welcome and feels like they're the only person in the room.
Zoe: [00:01:50] Well, that's so nice of you to say. That is my goal.
Todd: [00:01:58] Another thing Zoe, about Art is a Verb is we're trying to bring a lot of people together who are on creative paths that are paralleled or intersecting, and look at the way that they are experiencing making their work currently, what their history is, and how we all can rely on each other to build bigger visions.
Susan: [00:02:22] And I will say, too, in St. Louis, where we both are, the restaurant industry and the food industry is probably the most creative cultural icons here in St. Louis. And it's so great to live in a city like that.
Zoe: [00:02:38] It is, and we've, you know, we've had a huge explosion in the last few years. So, I mean, there's a lot here.
Todd: [00:02:45] Zoe, your life's work has been about making beautiful spaces for people to come together and enjoy delicious food. Tell us a little bit about how you came into the restaurant industry.
Zoe: [00:02:57] Well, it's really all that I've ever done. I started working in restaurants when I was 18 years old and I just took to it. It was so much money back then, I just thought that I was a millionaire. I loved it, I was good at it, and I met some wonderful people, including both of you. It's just, I don't know--I was a natural. I could really tell you that, I guess I started in 1983. Yesterday was my 37th-year anniversary owning restaurants--I don’t look that old guys! [Laughter] But in 1983, I probably could envision myself doing this until the age that I am. I love it that much. And it means that much to me.
Todd: [00:03:53] it's interesting to hear what that was like then, in St. Louis and what that's like now, because as you said, it seems like there's such an explosion and at the time, I don't think there was.
Zoe: [00:04:03] No. I was a big fish in a little pond, quite frankly. And I was able to bring some new experiences here that weren't happening back then. So, I was a baby--I was in my early twenties. And it was kind of a heady experience, just getting to be that young and being semi-successful at this and getting a lot of attention. I got a lot of press and that really helped fuel me.
Todd: [00:04:31] You took over an existing restaurant that you had worked in. What was that like?
Zoe: [00:04:37] Well, I mean, that was a very lucky experience that the women that I worked for who had a really darling restaurant couldn't stand each other--and they fought, and they wound up suing each other. And I wound up being the recipient of their place. It was just serendipitous. I was lucky. It was easy for me to take over because I was used to working there. Like I said, I was a kid, but I had been doing so much for them, and they were relying on me so much because they hated each other. It just, it was just a natural! It was fantastic. And then I was able to build off of that.
Susan: [00:05:17] Did you start the fight?
Zoe: [00:05:19] Yes, on purpose. [Laughter] Believe me, I would throw fuel on the plane.
Todd: [00:05:26] Was that the space in Lafayette Square?
Zoe: [00:05:30] It was.
Susan: [00:05:59] So Zoe, you grew up with creative sisters and they each do something different. How did that influence you when you approached your work?
Zoe: [00:06:07] I guess that we all--I don't know why, my parents actually, my mother was an accountant and it really made no sense. But for some reason, we all gravitated towards the arts, and I think it was just something that we all--maybe, expected of each other, as opposed to our parents expecting that of us.
You know, I think that my mother, quite frankly, would have been more excited about me becoming an accountant, something stable and normal, but I don't know. We feed each other's creativity, that's for sure. And we push each other.
Todd: [00:06:51] And you know, at the time, I think in the early days of you opening your first place, you relied on support from them in opening--I mean, there were Belinda's paintings in your restaurant...
Zoe: [00:07:03] Right? Exactly.
Todd: [00:07:05] You know, Carrie, who was social, brought clientele to you...
Zoe: [00:07:10] She did. And she was a casting director then, and that was back when films would get filmed in St. Louis. And I think she was like, maybe even the head of the film office in St. Louis for a while, we would get a lot of creatives in there. The other thing that was really fun about my first restaurant was a lot of my clientele was from a creative field. We had a lot of people in the advertising industry, they were our regular customers, and people in the media. So that was really interesting.
Todd: [00:07:45] You're known for really good food, and you've made different kinds of food at your different places, but you're also really celebrated for the atmosphere that you create.
Zoe: [00:07:56] And really the food is primary, but not...
Todd: [00:08:00] I know Zoe, but I mean, it's a full experience, what you do. It's a full--
Zoe: [00:08:05] Exactly.
Todd: [00:08:06] I'm just curious what you have to say about that. What's the formula in making these things that you do so well? It's something that wasn't happening so much when you started doing it. But I mean, now everybody kind of has that template, you know?
Zoe: [00:08:21] Right. And that has always been my formula. I think that, generally, a space inspires me. I'm not a chef, so I don't go in thinking, “Oh, I have to make this specific cuisine.” I'll be inspired first, by a space. And then I'll think what could that be? What would make that space a really incredible experience? And then I build the food, and the menu, and the cocktail list, wine list from there. So Bar Les Frères, for instance, is a beautiful 1920s building with giant arched windows, and the building hadn't been touched since, oh gosh--it was 82 years old. Well, the space itself had been occupied for 82 years by a shoe repair and nothing had been done to the building. So it's still sort of a raw space, and by raw, I don't mean industrial, but, kind of 1920s raw. The pipes are exposed and it's all, kind of, old terrazzo floors that we didn't really make pristine. And we kept a very antique feel to it, but it really does feel like an old cafe in France or Daniel Boulud was in St. Louis once, and came here and said, “I feel like I'm in Vienna.” I mean, I hope that the space takes you somewhere. I don't want to take people out of St. Louis per se, but I want to take them out of their day. I want to take them away from where they were sitting in an office or, you know, with children all day or whatever it was--I just want to take them away from that.
Todd: [00:10:09] So when you see that, when you have that vision, what are the steps in, like, achieving the realization of that?
Zoe: [00:10:16] Well, starting to work with the designer and then, you know, getting my chef on board and designing menus around what the space will be, and what the feel of the place should be. And the food comes second for me. Now with most chefs, the food comes first--and that doesn't mean that the food isn't as important. It's just, my process is a little bit backwards.
Todd: [00:10:41] And your chef is someone that you've relied on, that's been a very big part of your vision and creation.
Zoe: [00:10:48] Yes. And he's so great, and he's so adaptable, and so--he's like my brother. So we've had a very, very successful tenure. My chef is Ny Vongsaly, and he and I met in 1980. He's very, very special. And we met, he was a cook in the restaurant that I was a waitress in. The restaurant where the ladies fought.
Susan: [00:11:29] The one that you started.
Zoe: [00:11:34] Exactly. So he and I--we just had an instant connection, and we've been together since!
Susan: [00:11:45] Oh, you sound more like an interior designer or a set designer or some sort of creative field, except instead of, the sort of carpets and the art, and the curtains, your medium is food and wine.
Zoe: [00:12:00] It is the same process for me as if, you know, my sister Belinda is doing a painting, or if my sister Carrie is casting a show, or producing a show. it's all the same thing.
Susan: [00:12:14] Absolutely.
Zoe: [00:12:15] And putting food and wine to it, and then adding the hospitality and adding how you're going to make people feel, and how you really--because it can't just be a space that's decorated and the food's okay. You have to take it to that next step, then, of making sure that it's executed like that on a nightly basis. And it all sounds so complicated, but it's really not.
Susan: [00:12:37] because every night's different. It sounds to me almost like a show, you know, like a Broadway show or something.
Zoe: [00:12:43] Exactly.
Susan: [00:12:44] You've had seven places, Cafe Zoe twice, Zoë’s Pan-Asian, Bobo, and now the existing trilogy. Right? How do you stay inspired, and how do you make each place a little bit different?
Zoe: [00:13:00] Well, again, like I said, the space is generally what drives me. And with my most current restaurant, Billie Jean, there was a space on my street that I had always coveted and something about it just drew me, and I hounded the landlord for years to let me have the space. And there was always a current tenant and then it turned into a yogurt shop, and again they went under... and somehow I made--you know, I probably helped them along somehow.
Susan: [00:13:31] Was that your fault too? [Laughter]
Zoe: [00:13:35] I probably put some kind of curse on them or something. But again, that space really helped me--it propelled me. And I can't explain that. So I don't want to say that I'll never open another restaurant again, or that I'll never have another project again, even though this has been a very tough time...if something inspires me down the road, I'll probably do it.
Susan: [00:14:02] Good.
Todd: [00:14:03] You know, the interesting thing about Billie Jean is it seems like a return to your origins in a way.
Zoe: [00:14:09] And that's true. That place to me, and it probably, it might be my final project... so for me, and for Ny, my chef--when we set out to design that menu, we wanted that to be a culmination of all of our work that we've done in the past. So there are nods to our first restaurant there. I mean, there are definitely dishes that we've done at every restaurant that we've done together, that we've elevated and we've changed, but there are many nods to our past.
Todd: [00:14:43] To expand on Billie Jean a little bit more, because it's so you, and it's so attention to detail--
Zoe: [00:14:50] That is hyper-attention to detail. It's almost stressful!
Todd: [00:14:56] You know, from the finish of the floors, to the wood that's chosen for the chairs, and the artwork that is chosen for the walls. And like, it evokes something that is modern and nostalgic...
Zoe: [00:15:11] Right. And there's also a formality to it, but it's also very laid back. I mean, we have an open bar and an open kitchen and there's a lot of energy coming from there, but then each table is white linen and has its own small spotlight on it and can be very romantic and celebratory. So, it's kind of like two experiences colliding there, I think.
Susan: [00:15:39] Well, talk about attention to detail. I would even say that you dress the part, too. Do you, is it just my imagination or do you kind of dress to not clash with your interiors?
Zoe: [00:15:51] That's true, Susan. [Laughter]
Todd: [00:15:53] And you know, Zoe, I think that your personality is really there, and I think that's one thing that has helped with your devout following and like, people want to see you in those environments. So you're definitely, you know...
Zoe: [00:16:06] That's true. That's a problem sometimes. It means I can't leave that often, [laughter] but I do. And my staff, sometimes I even, I don't know--with my staff, when they get really close to my clientele, I feel kind of like, well, wait, what about me? I do, I adore working the dining rooms. It gets tiresome after a while and I'm married, and my husband certainly doesn't want me working the floor every night. But when I do, I have a blast. And there is nothing like that, and there is nothing like feeding off the energy of a full dining room, and getting to help take care of my clientele and make sure that their evening is what it should be.
Susan: [00:16:56] Well, it's entertainment too. Isn't it?
Zoe: [00:16:59] It is! It’s so much fun.
Susan: [00:17:01] You’re a performer, and you have a very good following. I mean, you have repeat customers every week, it's difficult to get reservations into your places. Because you have repeat--
Zoe: [00:17:13] Well, I wish that that was true all the time, Susan.
Susan: [00:17:17] It is, it is.
Zoe: [00:17:119] The places are also tiny. That's why it's hard to get in. That’s the only reason! [Laughter] but I do have--yes. I have built a huge clientele in St. Louis and it's fantastic. You know what? I try to introduce myself to new people too. And I hope that, you know, I'm not young, but I try to encourage young people to join us and to, to be part of it. And I love the mix of a crowd. I don't want just white one percenters. I want whoever I can get, and I want them all to experience whatever I can do to make it a fantastic evening.
Todd: [00:17:57] Zoe, who are the peers in your community?
Zoe: [00:18:02] Oh, a ton!
Todd: [00:18:03] Are there people that you call upon to support you, and commiserate, or help realize your visions or, you know, work through difficult times?
Zoe: [00:18:12] Of course, and, you know, especially through COVID, I've been in pretty close touch with a lot of them, mostly Ben Poremba, who owns the Benjelina restaurant group in St. Louis. He and I are very close friends, and sometimes collaborators. I will say, of course we're not in business together, but we definitely rely on each other when we're doing new projects. So he's truly been a rock for me during this. And I hope that I've been there for him. Gerard Craft, who's probably the most prominent restaurateur in St. Louis, he and I, we're not super close friends, but we've definitely been in touch. Kevin Nashin who owns Sydney Street cafe and The Peacemaker, and he's a wonderful guy, James Beard award winner--I think they're all James Beard. Ben hasn't won one, but he's been nominated. So, Kevin and Gerard are both James Beard award-winning chefs, and we have all been in touch and we're in touch anyway. But this has been a particularly, you know, devastating time. And I think that, being able to bounce ideas off of one another has been helpful.
Susan: [00:19:30] Besides COVID, what are some of the changes have you observed over the arc of your creative career?
Zoe: [00:19:33] Well, I have a lot more competition. [Laughter] Like I said, when I started I was inspired by Wolfgang Puck and Alice Waters and Jeremiah Tower. I mean, that's when California Cuisine was first being introduced into our country, and, I kind of think that I helped bring that to the Midwest.
Todd: [00:20:02] Zoe, I'd never, I mean, I'm such a hillbilly off the turnip truck. I didn't know what arugula was until I worked at your restaurant.
Zoe: [00:20:12] Right! Well, none of us did. I mean, we didn't, and you know, they were the founders of that cuisine and it was so expensive to get those things shipped in. We didn't have farmers growing those types of things. So, you know, there was a big learning curve there, and it all got imported. Now that's changed entirely, of course...what was the question?
Todd: [00:20:38] Just the changes that you've observed over the arc of your career, like, you were operating, offering something that other people weren't--and people caught up or, caught on or, you know, cycled up...and then there was the whole foodie movement, which exactly, you know, how was that?
Zoe: [00:20:57] That was kind of threatening to me, you know, in all honesty. Like, am I not keeping up? And that's also when the chefs started to emerge and I didn't have that title, I'm a restauranteur, which back in the old days, you know, the restaurateur was the star, and slowly it became the chef is the star. And I will say, I kind of maybe slipped into the woodwork a little bit. I wasn't getting as much attention as I had been before, but I think that that also pushed me to keep reinventing and to keep doing new projects and to stay as current as I possibly can. And really, I mean, isn't that what art is all about?
Susan: [00:21:42] Yeah, of course. And also, to keep yourself from being bored too, I would imagine.
Zoe: [00:21:49] Exactly. That's what I meant. Like honing your craft and, you know, I can take this a step further. And I still feel that I can do that.
Susan: [00:21:57] But that's a bold move for a restaurateur too. And this is why we think you're perfect for the Art Is a Verb, because you are in a business world, but you're using that business world as your medium. Right? And you're able to push it--so, to close down successful models is amazingly brave of you.
Zoe: [00:21:49] Yes. [Laughter] I am brave though. I'm not faint of heart, I will take risks. I think that that's part of being an entrepreneur.
Todd: [00:22:32] And you're passionate, and one thing that's always been an inspiration to me and others has been your continual self challenge of, “and she did it again!”
Zoe: [00:22:46] And like I said, that's important. See I think, what you said before about a restaurateur taking a risk...I think it's riskier to rest on your laurels. You know, let it get stale, not keep up...
Susan: [00:23:03] But that is the norm. Isn't it?
Zoe: [00:23:04] But do you go to those places, Susan?
Susan: [00:23:06] I go...no, I don’t.
Zoe: [00:23:13] probably not that much!
Todd: [00:23:10] I mean, there are things that are comfortable and old fashion. And institutions...
Zoe: [00:23:15] Of course, I know Todd loves his old fashioned institutions, and I love them too! And you're right. Actually it bums me out when I go to an institution--Todd and I go to one in St. Louis all the time when he’s in town, and when they try to get too fancy, or they change their dinnerware to like, ceramic, you know, handmade ceramics, that doesn't set well. I want it to be the same. So you're right. For me, it's just not a formula to rest on my laurels. I can't do that. I would get bored. So, that probably is the artist in me that I want to continue to create. Every day is a new day, and I try to build on what I've got every day.
Susan: [00:24:03] Do you have a favorite restaurant that you've had?
Zoe: [00:24:06] I'm sitting at Bar Les Frères right now, and it's so comforting to be here, and I really love it. I Fratellini is probably where my heart is, but I love all of them. I really do. I've sold restaurants in the past. It's always been my evolution. Like I don't just walk away, but I sell it to somebody.
Todd: [00:24:28] I mean, you've sort of, in turn, done a similar thing that your bosses did for you, and that you've kind of passed them along to people that are really excited to receive them.
Zoe: [00:24:39] Exactly. So I have been fortunate enough to be able to sell things and move on. And mostly it's been geographic like, “Oh, well, I'd love to have all my restaurants in the same block. So therefore I'll sell this one because even though it's three miles away, it seems like it's forever, you know, driving around.” So I'd rather be able to just walk to all three. So that's out of sheer convenience, but, being able to sell those places, I will say this--I can easily take that check and walk away. No tears. [Laughter]
Susan: [00:25:20] Cold, cold, cold. [Laughter]
Zoe: [00:25:22] Because I know, but I know that there's a new project looming and that's exciting. So is that like an artist selling a painting? I don't know.
Todd: [00:25:29] So Zoe, we're recording this interview on June 2nd. We're experiencing the circumstances of the Coronavirus, an entire economic mess that we're having at the moment, and it's a catastrophe for so many. What's that like in your industry? What's going on there? What do you hear from the others in the business and what are you thinking? What are they thinking about adapting and reforming or reshaping, to deal with it currently? And how does that look moving forward?
Zoe: [00:26:09] Well, that's a big question. You know, the last few months have been horrific. I'm fortunate enough that I was able to get my arms around it quickly. And for me, the shutdown, that was my full time job was, you know, figuring it out, getting my costs down as low as I could and being able to survive.
Applying for the PPP loans, which I still haven't used because they don't work for me, but I've got the money, just in case. And that changes every day and we're learning more every day. Today, I feel kind of hopeful. Yesterday, I woke up feeling completely defeated. It's a rollercoaster, just like for everyone else. And I understand that. My peers and I have been talking a lot and, you know, I feel kind of envy, like I didn't do COVID very well. Like, some of them really pulled themselves up and just thought, I'm doing curbside this whole time, and developing frozen foods and meal kits, and turning their places into grocery stores, and to each his own. I felt nervous about getting sick. I felt nervous about getting my staff sick. I was pleased that they were able to get unemployment, and I'm keeping them on that unemployment as long as I can, because I feel like it's the humane thing to do. If we open right now, we can only open at 25% capacity, and to have them come back on a part-time basis is not fair to them.
So, I'm one of those who are holding firm. I don't judge anyone who's doing something different than me. We're all just doing whatever we can, and whatever we feel is right. I hope that a lot of these great restaurants in St. Louis will make it. And I think that in talking to my best friend, Ben, in the restaurant business, who I talked to daily, some days he's just as freaked out as I am and says, I'll only make it another couple of months. And then, the next day he says, I've thought of a new idea. And then we try to bounce those off of each other. And other friends have told me how to use the PPP money. Not that I've done it yet, but, it's tightened our community--I will say that. And the other thing that it's shown a light on for me, a couple of things, it shows the fragility of our businesses and how we've run our places. And this seems to be the common thread for all of us is--wow. I mean, we were, without the PPP money, truthfully, most of us would have been bankrupt immediately. And we really have to change the way that we run our businesses and we have to change the way people are paid. It's like the whole industry needs an overhaul.
I hope that that can happen. I don't know that it will, because we're all just scrambling now to reopen, but the fragility is what strikes me the most, and how I will have to change the way that I operate. And yes, I can look at that as a challenge. I'm not a person that looks back, I like to look forward. I don't want to say, oh, the good old days when I didn't have to buy sanitizer.
Susan: [00:29:41] Cause you always were buying sanitizer, I’m sure.
Zoe: [00:29:43] No. But I mean the constant sanitizer for my customers, of course we have it for the restaurants, but you know, for the customers, and how this will change the whole hospitality portion that I'm so good at, or I like to think I'm good at, or you know, that I'm passionate about. It's taking a lot of the spontaneity and fun out of what will be your dining experience. And that's not setting well with me. I don't like the idea of, I'll have to take credit card numbers for reservations now, because I won't be able to afford a no show. And I'll have to put time limits on your reservations because I can't have too many people gathering at the door. Ahh, that to me, if I have a four-top in here who's just bought a $200 bottle of wine and I have to tap my watch and say, sorry, time's up. That just doesn't seem good!
Todd: [00:24:28] “Let me put a cork in that for ya!”
Zoe: [00:30:43] “Here you go!” So how does that look for me? And just like I said, that doesn't set well with me. And will I have to go to those measures? I think I will, unless I wait this out a really long time and I am losing staff a little bit, my kitchen staff is starting to disappear. I'm having to hunt them down, so I'm on a tightrope every day.
Susan: [00:31:18] We know that you're great at the intimacy and the personal touch. And you've started talking about that, that's such an important part of your dining experience...
Zoe: [00:31:30] Exactly. It's my brand!
Susan: [00:31:38] How can you swap that out for another form of intimacy? Are you thinking about like, what are some of the creative ways of having that intimacy and still being a little distant?
Zoe: [00:31:45] Susan, I wish I had the answer and I'm really open to any suggestions.
Susan: [00:31:57] Yeah. We're all trying to reinvent how to stay close, without being physically close. And that's tough.
Todd: [00:31:59] I think we're all struggling with that. I mean, you know...
Zoe: [00:32:02] We can't do what we do without some degree of intimacy. You know, my hand is going to have to touch a glass that I'm delivering to you. And it can be gloved, but the bacteria is still on the gloves. I hate to point that out to people, but it's true. So, you know, and the servers will be in masks and you know, we'll all be in masks, hopefully they'll look nice. I don't want to do the paper surgical masks, certainly. And we'll design something or have something good looking. It's a big question for me though. And it does, it changes everything. And my restaurants are very small. So having people that close together is not going to fly, although from what I'm seeing, Todd you're in New York, Susan and I are in the Midwest and I don't know, my neighbors who are open--there doesn't seem to be any social distancing. And very few people here are wearing masks.
Susan: [00:33:10] Right.
Zoe: [00:33:11] So there's also the whole political statement, and that's a problem. And my brand is hospitality, and I'm feeling just hostile about that! It's like the opposite of what I need to be. So that's another reason, probably, that I will not open right away. I need to get past all of this! And it's been such an emotional roller coaster, and so financially devastating. To see people be so cavalier about that is very upsetting.
Susan: [00:33:40] I will say though, this is what we miss. You know, I think when people are asked, what do you miss? It's not, well, I'm sure some people miss big concerts, or I don't hear anyone saying like, galas, and you know, things with small talk. I hear people say, “having dinner with friends,” and it's that sort of intimacy...
Zoe: [00:34:02] With Friends - yeah. And the $200 bottle of wine.
Susan: [00:34:40] Oh God, don’t time me, Zoe, because you'll be late.
Zoe: [00:34:11] I don't want to put the time limit on that! You’ll be late. [Laughter]
Todd: [00:34:21] Susan. You need to be timed, drinking wine?
Susan: [00:34:25] I think she’s saying that I can’t get that second or third bottle.
Todd: [00:34:31] You need to be timed to slow down!
Susan: [00:34:35] Maybe you can, how about some straws in the bottles. That should go fast!
Zoe: [00:34:40] That's my other brand. I like to get people liquored up. I want them to have fun!
Susan: [00:34:42] Very French.
Todd: [00:34:52] So Zoe, in closing, tell us, three of your restaurants, not yours, that could be anytime, anywhere, real or not real, that you hold close to your heart. First, one from the past.
Zoe: [00:35:08] Of my restaurants?
Todd: [00:35:09] Not of yours
Zoe: [00:35:13] Oh not of my restaurants? Oh jeez, Todd.
Todd: [00:35:15] Close to your heart. One from the past.
Zoe: [00:35:18] Okay. One from the past, actually, Todd, I went to with you, in New York City - Indochine.
Todd: [00:35:25] Okay. Yup.
Zoe: [00:35:27] I mean, we had such a good time and I have darling pictures of us sitting there smoking cigarettes.
Todd: [00:35:40] Yup, with the whole fish - and next one from the present, before COVID.
Zoe: [00:35:45] Oh gosh, there's a darling place in Aspen that I love. It's called the Crêperie du Village. And it's just darling, and it's just like putting on a warm sweater when you walk in.
Todd: [00:36:02] And now if you can, one from the future, when we come out of these crises.
Zoe: [00:36:07] When we come out of these crises, in the future, I would like to see all three of my restaurants survive.
Susan: [00:36:10] What’s the first one you’re going to make reservations at?
Zoe: [00:36:18] Um - I don't know yet! That's how much in the dark I am. I would really--am I allowed to use one of mine for this?
Todd: [00:36:25] Sure. Okay. We'll bend the rules.
Zoe: [00:36:27] You know, I would like to see Billie Jean reopen, and thrive again.
Todd: [00:36:33] Fair enough. I would agree with that.
Zoe: [00:36:36] Okay.
Susan: [00:36:40] With those gougère, oh my God. A Pimm's cocktail.
Zoe: [00:36:44] Yes. I can't wait for that either.
Susan: [00:36:40] That just sounds like... I need it right now.
Todd: [00:36:49] We all do.
Susan: [00:36:51] Thank you so much, Zoe. This has been really fun. And Todd, thank you too.
Zoe: [00:36:52] I really appreciate it.
Todd: [00:36:59] Thanks, Zoe.
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